I heard this in contrast to the snippet of Steve Christensens wife on a news show asking about what Steve Christensen was threatening Mark Hofmann with if he didnt produce the McClellin collection where she stated something along the lines of He was going to go to the police and have him arrested. Cookie Notice Talk about ADD. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (The audio starts in Part 1 around 1:23.55) I did a little research and found a digitized & searchable copy of Elias Smiths autobiography. Thanks for the clarification. Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. I've debated whether or not I should write about this, as I'm well aware the reception may be inflammatory, however it's something I'd like to get off my chest. On my mission in England I met a older, wise non LDS woman very knowledgeable on esoteric and metaphysics teachings. Yes! Dave, Ive planned on publishing a book for years; but Ive decided to publish a series of articles first that the book will build upon. I have heard metaphysics mentioned in one of the interviews (I think it was the one on post declaration polygamy). Three or four episodes were mentioned by John. Like I said they were casting that net as wide as they could get it. I know about the September 6 and there are others. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Awesome. Long question, sorry ! In 1994, Professor David Wright of Brandeis University and editor Brent Metcalf were excommunicated for their scripture studies in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology In 1995, author Janice Allred was excommunicated for her writings about Mother in Heaven. This one is up there with the best. No one believed that any one person could do all of those forgeries and build those bombs, and kill those people . Those mind-opening essays impacted my life in positive and powerful ways. Robert Ritner, Egyptologist, wrote a recent book the Joseph Smith Papyri in which he acknowledges your encouragement for that project. I have been thinking nonstop about that analogy, because it is so illustrative of the disorder. Every metric you can imagine points to the same conclusion: from Paul VI forward, Catholicism has gone into deep crisis. I struggled in school with learning how to read for years and this resulted in me developing crippling anxiety any time I was aced to read in public. Where we should push back is, if someone solely discredits someone without examples of where their information is wrong or flawed ie simply attacking the messenger instead of the message. And if Christianity/Mormonism is *false*, then were being done a tremendous service in this falsification. Its probably best to start over when these things happen, rather than just continuing where you left off. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/493__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_1.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/494__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_2.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-497-BrentMetcalfePt3.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-498-BrentMetcalfePt4.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499-BrentMetcalfePt5.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499b-BrentMetcalfePt6.mp3, https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm, Signature Books Mormon News, October 1317. Thanks for the interview both of you. It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. What an amazing life Brent! pigella miraculous ladybug power. Surely, anyone who was even moderately sure of themselves in this case would have responded such as this : We have no idea where this letter came from, theres absolutely no truth in it and we disregard it completely.we maintain Josephs account to be true [8], Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. Yes, because remember that the paradigm speaking through Mikes words is not just representative of him. Published by on 7 czerwca 2022. What if we are all chasing literal meanings of words such as translation, ages and names while in effect they are meant to have symbolic meaning and by this to explain esoteric principles to insiders. I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. Thanks for this podcast! Not everyone who doubted the authenticity of Hofmanns forgeries did so for valid and sound reasons. This negative sentiment is perhaps made up for by Hofmann's victims. Im sure there is a very good possibility that COB personnel would have been more suspect of Jerald, and any information he offered, than Hofmann. Pardon me for not commenting on LDS church history, but to be honest Ive read it or heard it all and have moved on. This was an awesome interview. I appreciate the details of Brents experience. Thanks for the clarification, Brent. Why have you distanced yourself from actively publishing and engaging topics on forums as you did in years past? Menu. Release Calendar Top 250 Movies Most Popular Movies Browse Movies by Genre Top Box Office Showtimes & Tickets Movie News India Movie Spotlight. Or even presenting the center view? In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. Brent Metcalf, who has been through personal tragedy, triumph and uncertainty can now call himself a national champion. [7] The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. Metcalf served as the National Freestyle Developmental Coach prior to . I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. And a small footnote: Many of these original founders had been part of an on-campus group, called the Open Door Club. The problems he discovered lay at Josephs feet, but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith. Part two was chilling as details we have never heard about Mark Hoffman, Steve Christiansen come out. I was hoping you would have spoken more about the Book of Mormon and Abraham. Near the end of a presentation you gave for the ExMormon Foundation, you said something to the effect of: People ask me how Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, how he pulled it off, how it all came about. This was very similar to my experience. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Im not saying you need to have spiritual experiences to validate your work by any means if the facts are facts, but a higher power confirmation always helps. A special thanks to Brent for giving up so much of his time to do these episodes, especially some of them as he was feeling very much under the weather. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Do you believe that your martial arts and mental training has contributed to your belief system and the independence from the crowd? Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. I would love to hear more about what unfolded after Hoffman, including how you came to be excommunicated, if you care to share that. As a Mormon History and Rare Document Researcher, Brent Metcalfe has unparalleled knowledge of the religion and its connections in Utah. I think that the Salt Lake LDS church is concerned with becoming the RLDS church, which has changed its narrative to a very noncompelling one, and about 80% of its members have left. Youre one of the few secular critics of the church that can offer a really long perspective on challenges to Mormonisms truth claims. Thank you so much for being so open and honest that particular issue. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. Sincerely, Terry. This book was way above my reading level at the time and I wonder if that may be the biggest hurdle in reaching standard Mormons about the book and its challenges. Heres a link to the Deseret News write up on the presentation: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. I especially connected with his comments on ADD. If you ever get the chance to talk with Steve Christensens wife and/or Brent Metcalfe again, I would like to hear you explore this dichotomy with them as they are polar opposites. Brent Metcalf. Im curious who is singing Lead Kindly Light in this its beautiful. How have things changed over the decades? Or at least, Lets Take this Puppy Down.. And much was going on. What do you attribute this decline to? brent metcalfe excommunicated. And great questions John. Thanks to the both of you! Ive followed Mormon stories for several years now and listed to most of the episodes and this interview with Brent Metcalfe is in my top 5 MS podcasts. Wow John, what an interview. I happened to not do soat least, not yet. A man with boldness of speech, and is often cited by members as one of the favourite apostles to hear from. Tom, have you considered allowing John to interview you? :( Will re-record hopefully soon! Afraid that Brent would go public with the contradictory information, the LDS church terminated him as a member. Im with you on the music Charles!! The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? This is the part Im most interested in: how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources?. Phooey to that. hendrick motorsports hats; brent metcalfe excommunicated had the same reaction to the Sandra Tanners interview. I can hardly wait for the rest! There was an overall feeling that he just had it together. That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. Today the church has suffered too many blows to its claims of certainty to dare to treat its members the way it treated Brent Metcalfe. Over the years you just reason, that a faith shouldnt be that complicated. Given that, do you think that Joseph Smith deliberately plotted, prepared, researched, drafted, re-drafted the book over several years, or did it flow spontaneously from his subconscious mind in ways even he didnt understand? She spoke of her life and what has happened in the 30 years since one of Utah's most infamous crimes, Thursday October 8, 2015. This theory is now well accepted in academia. About a year or so ago when I finally left the church I looked him up to get advice and catch up on old times. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. He worked directly for Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmann's victims. This was interesting all around. I am waiting patiently for part 3. 2) It seems to me that most of the critiques in the 21st century arent recent developments, rather they already existed for sometimes decades (credit to Brodie and the Tanners for that). Resolved: Release in which this issue/RFE has been resolved. Ive always wondered why the most ardently orthodox and pious seem to have the least faith in the divinity and omnipotence of the Lords plan. I remember how the church/BYU was trying to treat this as a non-issue. Liked by Brent Metcalfe Experience Practice Lead - Mergers and Acquisitions/Investment Group and Consultant Backswath Management Sep 2022 - Present6 months Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Seeking New. January 15, 2015. It was so, so interesting. OMAHA, Neb. It is something that has fascinated me, and this Metcalfe interview did not disappoint!!! So my question is, what if the effort for the book of Abraham was an attempt by JS and his close friends to deliver an esoteric masterpiece. The confessionals in the documentary of Hofmann's associates, such as Shannon Flynn, Brent Metcalf and George Throckmorton are captivating. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. Will there be more? But those were interesting times! Great interview. That piqued my interest in the whole sordid affair. accounting for llc member buyout; black barber shops chicago; otto ohlendorf descendants; 97 4runner brake bleeding; Freundschaft aufhoren: zu welchem Zeitpunkt sera Semantik Starke & genau so wie parece fair ist und bleibt 7 czerwca 2022. Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. If so, what will be the subject? When you described Hoffmans futile attempts to delay the inevitable meeting where his house of cards would come tumbling down I couldnt help but compare it to the decades-long quest among some of the church leadership to keep the brand pure by weeding out doubters. They have proven time and time again that that is all they care about. hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. John, please interview Mark Hoffman someday if you can! This was an excellent broadcast! We had some technical difficulties. In Gnosticism Abraham is not even a real person, the story represents the triumph of spirit over matter and is loaded with hidden symbolic meaning. But I feel that sometimes secular scholars, perhaps in an effort to be diplomatic, perhaps for other reasons, underestimate and understate the inevitability of open conflict with a religious tradition they study. How did you encourage this masterpiece which, in my opinion, decimates the churchs past claims on the BofA? Indeed, the trivial matters that many theists assert as claiming the attention of God (even as hell is meanwhilebreaking loose) is absurd evidently too absurd for many to even grasp. [5][6], According to the Deseret News, the response from the apologetic community was "vitriolic. and our After years of palling around with anti-Mormon apostates (e.g. At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. Thank you for this interview. The view of the Lamb on mount Sion gave me joy unspeakable and full of glory. Its great to find all this background information. What a fascinating glimpse. It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. Lex, you might be interested in the work of Lance Owens. When?? Im not sure why I would have been hesitant to answer the question during the interview since Ive addressed it numerous timesIll have to go back and listen. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. Do you attend church anyplace else? Learn how your comment data is processed. My epiphany also came suddenly, while driving, followed by a massive emotional experience. Whatever the reasons, thanks again for your research that revealed there was MTSTWIS (More-To-See-Than-What-I-Saw). In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Metcalfe believed that his firing was because of a few people in church leadership who perceived him as a threat, even though he viewed his own work as apologetic and not scholarly. o David Wright was excommunicated for apostasy in April 1994 for his nontraditional views on Mormon scripture as exhibited in essays like his chapter in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. Oh, that would be great! Excellent question. It is true that Mac Christiansen did pay for Marks sons mission. There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. [4] Metcalfe had become an ardent supporter of the counterfeited Salamander letter, and hired by Christensen to research the letter. Do you know if the church took down the names of all the 7th East Press people? [9] Metcalfe and the police were afraid Metcalfe might be a future target he went into hiding. So cool that you provided some of the research used by Michael Quinn. Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. The gift of your ADHD shines. [3] Current historians tend to agree that Scotford and Soper joined forces to sell the fake relics for personal profit. Theres the answer. Because researchers like me are not taken seriously by them, even if we have serious and significant contributions. Nicely done, John. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. Two more parts (3 & 4) to come. Is there going to be a part 3? The interview was superb and the insight into this extraordinary life was gifted. Years ago, I attended a book reading and signing by Jon Krakauer in Marin County when he was promoting Under the Banner of Heaven. For more information, please see our @BHMetcalf. I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon. They claim that it occurred here in the USA siting scriptures and other things Joseph smith said. http://mormonstories.org/brent-metcalfe-hofmann-bombings-excommunication-book-of-mormon/, Scan this QR code to download the app now. Its a band called The Lower Lights. You know, guilt by association. The irony is, I wasnt an activist for anything, I simply wanted to write. What did they accomplish by kicking any of you out? Helping us understand all the ins and outs of this tale throughout the three episodes of this series is Brent Metcalfe, so lets find out more about him, shall we? Truth or legend? :). When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! at firesides, etc about some new discovery somewhere that was about to put to rest the concerns about the BOMs historicity. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. She was very impressed with the level of esoteric teachings in the D&C and Pearl of Great price. I need help with casting ZEE5 on my TV. Who does he think the last bomb was meant for? Textual Criticism and Editing, Mormon studies, and Book of Mormon. It would yield some satisfaction to me, if my misery can be a cause of happiness to others; but when I came to the place of prayer, had kneeled down, and closed my eyes, with my hands uplifted toward the heavens, I saw Jesus Christ at the right hand of God looking down upon me, and God the Father looking upon him. An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. I hope to move on some day as well. brent metcalfe excommunicated. [8] Personal life [ edit] Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. That was fascinating, thank you. The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. These other people that had experiences dont seem to have a similar backlash evident. Very informative. He has already saved her from choking on several occasions. Hinckley never responded, but was shortly thereafter offered the job by Christensen, which Metcalfe felt was orchestrated by Hinckley. Many years later in his interview with Dehlin, Brent Metcalfe tells of a conversation that he had with Mark E. Peterson where he plainly admits he was lying in his book. Brent did a marvelous job of creating a context by which these events took place. And it leaves this distrust in LDS leaders hanging with the viewer. I went to BYU and graduated with honors but I did everything I could to get out of reading or to read beforehand what I could be asked to read out loud. Also, make sure your second recording matches the first. Roger that. I think we ought to be okay with these questions, and not automatically defensive. Ultimately, Id say (and I dont know that youd fundamentally disagree here) that its impossible to separate traditions like Catholicism or Mormonism from their fundamental and unique truth claims. Steve Christiansen was my bishop in that centerville ward and I grew up with his children. Published by on October 31, 2021. On Wiwikipedia, it mentions that in a hit piece done by Dan Peterson, that he encodeds the message, Metcalfe is a butthead. What were your qurarrels like with FARMS? I sensed a full range of colors in the photo that is this interview. That makes more sense. Brent H Metcalf, 71 Resides in Salt Lake City, UT Lived In Sandy UT Related To Kyle Metcalf, Molly Metcalf, Kristy Metcalf, Nicole Metcalf Includes Address (3) Phone (4) Email (3) See Results Brent Charles Metcalf, 55 Resides in Lowell, AR Lived In Modesto CA, Oroville CA, Bonney Lake WA Also known as Gary Brent, Metcalf Brent